Steven Caple

Q

What got you into film?

What inspired me was watching other movies like everyone else, you know, being moved and connecting with film. When I was a kid, I saw people that look like me on the screen — that’s when I really started to get inspired and want to actually make them. My mom, she bought us all a video cassette recorder and just running around with it as a kid, from like seven to eight years old, just learning and teaching myself filmmaking, you know what I mean? I was just reenacting old films. The one I did a lot was Bad Boys. It was like my favorite.

Q

Bad Boys, really?

Yes. Random. I know. I’m like, I do dramas and yet Bad Boys was my favorite film. To be honest though, I felt like I wasn’t really an outspoken kid or individual. So like for me, I felt like, oh wow, there’s ways to express myself through this art form, as cliche as it sounds. So every movie that I kind of write and direct, I find them and make sure that there’s a piece of me in there, something that I want to tell, if that makes sense. And so as I got older I just started using that medium, you know, even with my class work. Like when I got to college, it wasn’t necessarily a major yet. So I was majoring in communications and all my assignments, I was like, can I figure out a way to, instead of writing papers, tell a story — I’ll go out with a camera and film my presentation. Especially in marketing classes. I took a lot of marketing classes too, so it went hand in hand. And by the time I got to grad school I just really jumped into it. Went from being a student to professional, I guess, when I came out to Los Angeles.

Q

So you were more of an introvert as a kid?

A bit. When I’m with my family, I’m not, you know what I mean? Like my family brings out like the goofiness in me. And I’m still learning how to balance that to the public even now. So like for me, I tried to keep all that internal as much as possible. My wife knows, my sister was like my best friend, my mom — everybody knows how goofy I can be and fun. But like when I’m out there in the world, yeah, I’m an observer, you know what I mean? I sit back and watch and just pick up on things and then learn. And I use that to my advantage in the sense of telling stories. And I listen. I listen very well.

Q

Does observing so much ever stop you from getting to your own work?

To a certain extent, but the observing is where my passion lies as a first stage to me getting excited as an artist, if that makes sense. So like if I’m sitting here having this conversation, I might be inspired by your hair. I’m like, his hair is cool man. It works for a man with the tattoo, the arrow. There’s something interesting — I’m thinking about his character. Where did he come from? When did you decide like, I’m going to just be me? So that’s the observation, and then I can get his character. But just having that idea doesn’t excite me. It’s when I put it down on paper, when I see it on screen — that’s what really gets me excited and going. I won’t get too caught up in the observing stage. Or the research stage. Cause you can live in that a long time and if you’re still in that phase when you were supposed to be creating, half the time it’s just fear. It’s definitely been projects that I may have left in the observing stage and never brought fully out, and it’s probably cause I’m afraid.

Q

Why are you afraid of it?

It can be for many different reasons. It could be like, you’ve never done anything like that before. I never told a story about the guy with the long hair, you know what I mean? Or I’m not sure about it just yet. So let me shelve it for a moment — am I mature enough to tell this story? Do I fully understand what this person’s going through? For me, if I shelve an idea or something that inspires me, it’s usually because I’m not there yet from a story standpoint, or I haven’t found the story yet. This moment needs to happen, if that makes sense. But if you’re not making the content and you’re too caught up in its early stages — I think people are just scared to fail, which is a huge scare.

Q

While observing, at what point do you know this is an interesting character and you’re going to paint them in your own way?

It could happen early on, like in a first meeting where you’re like, I think I can write this character. Or when you’re starting to develop their story — if it’s a story about your character, it’s just you, I’ll figure out where I can take you. That feels organic and raw to you. And then when I get to the keys — the typing, a pad, that kind of keyboard — I just kind of jog down ideas and they start to form in a line in my head and then I started to see things. Then I get music involved, I get visuals involved, I get colors, you know what I mean? Sometimes that happens before I write and sometimes it happens during. I haven’t figured out a set way to approach every project. Every one has kind of fallen in my lap differently or had a picture of getting made differently.

Q

So you never decided on a specific way of approaching a particular project?

They came to me for Creed II. Like I didn’t necessarily go to them. So that was interesting, but that was challenging because — you talk about like the observing stages — I didn’t get to sit much in it. I got the job in December and I was in prep January sixth. And we had to rewrite the script so I didn’t have enough time to dream in the subject matter, dream in that world and start being like, oh, what if I did this, what if I did that? I kind of had to be tactical — how do I get this done? How do I finish the movie? How do I still add a little spike? It wasn’t enough time to really soak in this. I’m glad it came out the way it did. As an artist you look at it and think of all the ways you could’ve brushed it differently or used different colors. But that was the tough part — the expectations. People already wanted something. There was already sort of a format, a structure, and I had to figure out how to fit in it.

Q

Did you work closely with Ryan?

He was busy with Black Panther. At first he read the script, gave notes and suggestions, then he did Black Panther press — it came out right when we were about to go into shooting. So I worked closely with Mike (Michael B. Jordan) more than anything, cause he was also from the first one and a producer on this one. And Sly — that was Ryan’s advice: make sure you listened to Sly (Stallone) because Sly has a lot of insight.

Q

What part of Adonis’ story would you have worked on differently?

I would have found ways to explain — it’s not even his story actually. It’s more so Bianca’s story. I wanted to figure out ways to get into her storyline a little bit deeper, just to add more layers to it. She definitely has her main arc, and she definitely plays a role in his life — she’s not just like, okay, I’m just tagging along. But we had some stuff that we shot that I felt like I wanted on screen, but I just didn’t have the proper time to execute it the way I wanted to.

As for Adonis, I wanted it to be more than a revenge story. There were ways of adding something more to this fight rather than just revenge. I think I did an okay job in portraying that — it was about his legacy. He was more worried about that. Not necessarily like, my dad died, I’ve got to kill him now. It was like, no — when people think of death, when they think of my last name, my father’s last name, I want to change that and how we are remembered. So it became more of an internal thing than just the external thing.

Q

Was that your input?

It was my input. It was good talking to Mike and figuring out where he was at in his life and how he felt — you know, being compared to the Will Smiths and Denzels of the world. Like, what do you want? It’s like their legacies are there, I’m trying to figure out my own path. Boom. There you go. I’m gonna try to put that into the movie. The same with Tessa — I want everything to feel as real and authentic as possible. So you sit down with these guys and chop it up about life, where they’re at in their personal lives, to see if there’s something here to connect to. Sometimes there is, sometimes there’s not, sometimes we were just swimming around the ballpark of what the story could be, trying to make it fit. That was my approach on this one cause I didn’t have enough time.

Q

Are you coming back for the next one?

I don’t know yet. I think we definitely all want to do another one. Mike wants to, the studio does. I think we just want to make sure it’s right. I don’t think I’ll direct the next one, no, but if they want me on it as a producer or a writer, I may.

Q

I’m really curious about Bianca’s story and how you go about it.

There was a scene where she’s performing and her hearing went out during the set. We deleted it from the movie, but there was a scene — she was on the Jimmy Kimmel show and she was singing. We cut that scene out because of timing, and I felt like it was done, it was a cool scene, but I wanted to treat it right because the subject matter is so sensitive. I didn’t want to overlook it. Then it became too much — you had her losing her hearing, and then you also had, spoiler alert, the baby not hearing. I had so much focused on that. I was like, I can’t rush that scene. I want to make sure all the right moments are there, so you have to cut down on certain areas and make that one pop. But I planted some stuff for the future with Tessa. I planted some stuff in the script with the baby. So I think there are definitely ways to go with the film and the franchise and still keep it grounded, keep it like character pieces, you know, in a fresh way. If not three, I might want to come back for four or five. I got a few ideas.

Q

In the first script, were they supposed to have a baby or did you put that in?

They were. They had a baby. But then I was like, man, we were thinking about taking it out, and then I was like, let me talk with Tessa. Talked with Tessa and then Tessa’s like, I don’t want to have no baby. She told Mike she ain’t gonna have no baby. Why? Because of her career. Because she also didn’t want to be a woman just walking around with swollen ankles and making sandwiches all day. She doesn’t want to be portrayed that way. And I was like, damn, that’s an interesting perspective. You don’t want to betray that. Let me say that on screen. And that became like the arc — we’re going to have a baby, it was always there, but it’s gonna mess up my career. It stakes to Adonis Creed because he has a baby now. So next time we fight he has more to think about. So all that kind of came into place.

The deaf part was my idea. I was like, I think the baby shouldn’t hear. I think that’ll keep you grounded. The baby’s not broken — you can still live without hearing — and that’s it. Adonis Creed thinks that his world is tough, but his baby’s about to go through some stuff, so get your stuff together cause you’re gonna have to be there for this family.

Q

Did you derive the family aspects of the film from your own personal life?

No, yeah, completely. The Dragos, for sure. Like being pressured by your father. When my dad was around, he pressured me a lot. He wanted me to play basketball. We had a rough relationship. So all that’s in the Drago story a bit. And then I felt like I knew Adonis at that age — you’re worried about your legacy? I have a wife, we’re talking about having a family. These are things I’ll do. The proposal scene too was something similar to what I had to go through — get down on one knee, she’s saying, is this real? It doesn’t go as planned. I didn’t get a door slammed in my face, but everything was planned perfectly up until that moment where I couldn’t even get my speech out. I know the nerves of that. So I was like, man, I really want to do a proposal scene, and that wasn’t in the script. I wrote that based off my experience.

Q

Do you ever feel vulnerable sharing your stories like that — basing moments in film off your personal life?

Yeah, you want that. I want to feel vulnerable. I want the audience to feel vulnerable, you know what I mean? That’s the goal. Especially in a movie that’s all about machismo — shirts off, everybody’s fighting. I need everybody in that vulnerable state. Cause when you’re vulnerable, people connect. When you’re tough, there’s a shield there. No one’s really like that in real life and if they are, you’re probably not friends with them cause you could never connect. So if I can keep that as a director throughout, then I have a passion for the scenes that I’m doing and the projects that I’m doing.

Q

Coming back to connecting — why do you think it’s so difficult for us to connect with another human being?

That’s an interesting question man. I haven’t really thought about that. I feel like it goes back to fear — kind of being vulnerable. Cause you got to let people in. You can never talk to somebody. Right now we’re at a time where a lot of people are talking at each other and no one’s really listening, especially with the racial tension going on politically. I think it’s just probably fear — fear of having to lose something. Are you afraid to lose power? Why do you feel like your views are the only ones that matter? Because there are people who are dangerous who are definitely on this side too. When you consider them, they kind of get a pass, you know what I’m saying?

I appreciate culture, you know what I’m saying? That’s why I love America. I can talk to you right now, in a public place. Before it wasn’t like that — we probably wouldn’t have been allowed to, let alone in a Black business, let alone be able to use the bathroom in a public place. So how much we have grown. But right now it doesn’t need to start building walls and secluding people. I think that’s actually the time we start to listen, have a conversation, and figure it out. It’s like parenting one on one — if your kid wants to do something, the first thing you should do is probably not lock them in a room and be like, no, you can’t do that. Talk to them and see what’s going on. Understand where they’re coming from and maybe there’s a solution.

It’s a little bit like my next film — I’m working on something at Legendary called ByAll with the writers from Creed. Without giving away too much, it’s like: what if police didn’t exist? So don’t we take matters into our own hands? It’s a little primitive at times, but we have to sort of create a system — trained by the citizens — but it becomes like an Uber App. A twisted Black Mirror episode, but as a feature. And what we kept coming back to is the difference between policing and problem solving. Policing — there’s no listening, just orders and commands, stay in control of a situation. Problem solving is going to take a little more time. That became like our theme. That’s the stuff I gravitate towards.

Creed definitely tapped into it too — communicating with the people around you. Creed wasn’t listening. The first fight, he had his mind set, his fiance was like, wait, you’re taking the fight? Then later he had to listen. And that second conversation was different. She understood that he was broken. That’s why her response was: make sure you beat them this time. I got your back. That’s their version of communicating. The solution really is just listening. I don’t know why people wouldn’t want to — I think it’s from personal gain, to be honest.

Q

How are you researching for ByAll?

You look up anything — from what’s going on politically to how Uber Apps run. No, legit. A lot of it is conversation too. Like what do you think about the police? What do you think about what’s happening and what can we do to change that? Would things be better or worse without them? But it’s a deeper conversation because you do sort of need something, cause there are people out there who would take advantage of that for sure. There’s police now and there’s still multiple crimes being committed. So imagine if there weren’t. So you’re telling me that regular dudes are gonna come to me and tell me don’t do that — cause you could get a few bucks on an app? So that’s what we want to explore. What if people got what they want in a way? Then it starts to pose the question: who are we then? We got rid of that system. That’s what I’m hoping people walk out of the theater with. It’s going to be controversial, maybe a little.

Q

It’s going to ignite a really intense dialogue about who we are.

But it could be a hit and miss. I’m going for the hit. It’s so challenging in a way that it scares me — why are you scared of that? Scary going into a project like that. I don’t know how people are going to feel. I’m fearful of it. I don’t know if it’s going to take me a month or two months to finish on paper, half a year, or two. We’ll take whatever. I’m a keep poking at it. It may not be perfect. It’s not going to have a solution. And that’s what people probably wouldn’t want — some people want that solution. I never want a solution in the movie. I just want to pose a question.

That’s how I like Creed. It’s a good film and it makes you feel good. It’s semi solution driven — it gives you a resolution in a sense of their story, but the baby’s still deaf. That’s the shot in the movie — look, there’s still a thing to go through, everything’s not perfect like you think. And that’s what was good about Creed one: he lost the match. Everything wasn’t perfect externally. But internally you got something. And I love films like that.

Q

You left that in there.

I left that and I was like, yes. You can look at these beautiful images of his family, but they still have a journey to go through with this baby — and that can lead you to two and three and four. But it’s also like, it felt real. It wasn’t the perfect studio movie — the studio movie would have been: baby can hear. That’s how I like to look at life. It’s also the problem of life.

Q

What do you think your legacy is going to be like — holistically, as a husband, as a filmmaker?

Good question, man. As a husband I think I’m going to be amazing. A husband and father — I can’t wait to have kids. I’m all about family. Career-wise, I think I’m going to have my ups and downs and I prepare myself for that. I want to challenge myself, make films like ByAll, make films that people are like, what the hell, this doesn’t fit the norm. I’m going to try things that may fail and I’m going to go for it. I know that requires ups and downs, and as an artist I know I’m just going to grow even through those failures. I keep a journal. There’ll be times where I can look back and say, all right, I’m just sitting at the bottom part right now, but there were times I succeeded too.

When I get a family, the kids and all that, everything’s going to be more important — as long as I’m succeeding in that world. Because that’s how my mom looked at things. She always found a way to put food on the table and a roof over our head. That’s the real accomplishment. There are certain things she had to give up — the sacrifice. Her dreams. She wanted to sing. But when she sees me doing what I love, she’s fulfilled on another level. That’s why I’m so excited to take her out tonight — my agency gave me tickets to a show she likes. I don’t watch it, so I’m gonna take her.

I can’t really pinpoint how people are going to perceive me. I just hope that I don’t care. Cause people are gonna feel so many different ways. My social media following’s gone up since the movie and it’s like, man, some people are fans, some people can’t stand me because there wasn’t enough Rocky, or whatever reason. Like he didn’t knock him out at the end. It’s always going to be a reason. That’s why I don’t look at it as much. Sometimes I got to step away because if I start to listen to that, I’m absorbing their energy. I don’t know how people look at me. I just hope that I’m able to stand on my own and just keep pushing and keep trying.